O’Brien wrinkle would complicate the last week of the summer window

We would be absolutely crazy to sell Jake, leaving us with just keane as cover. Even more bizarre when you take Branthwaites injury record into account. He should not be punished for stating he wants to play in his natural position, if true, how short sighted and petty of Moyes. Great defender and very useful at set pieces. Please let cool heads and sanity prevail...

Can't say I blame him if he wants to leave. An aging and mistake prone Tarks, an aging and mistake prone Keane and an excellent but injury prone Jarrad preferred in front of him. He's done nothing wrong yet Tarks and Keane, who were woeful for chunks of last season, last season as a partnership, kept getting picked ahead of him in his preferred position.

Getting games is okay. However, when you're getting played out of position, in a role you're uncomfortable in, and where you get made to look bad in as it's not your natural position, you're not going to be happy.

If the club is encouraging offers, then either he's had words with Moyes or else the money is required. I think perhaps N'Diaye not having gone (yet) has put a spanner in the transfer plans from a money perspective.

It would be a shame in my mind if he left. He's a player that's settled into the squad and one who is used to training and occasionally playing with Jarrad. Like many fans, I had hopes of a partnership developing as the season went on. But, if a player doesn't want to be at the club, it can potentially become toxic. Better for everyone if the issue is resolved through a quick sale and replacement.

I think Kieran got it right. Moyes imo was making do with the defence he had.Though he said a right back was not needed last September, not getting one has put alot of pressure on the defensive options.It looks like status quo this season, so O Brien is bound to be questioning his position.It could be that Everton need to sell, which when you look at the figures is glaring under the SCR rules, since that is the best way to generate funds.

Nidaye on the money asked does not seem to be generating the required interest.It would be annoying to be a second place Centre Back and watch the mistakes of Keane and Tarks and not being the replacement for a injured Branthwaite.

I have always thought that Moyes was comfortable on taking pressure on his defence,in the lower expectations and cost tight environment he was brought into to Manage.But if O Brien leaves this could backfire on him.

It would be surprising if any of this is actually true.

"The Republic of Ireland international, 25, spent much of last season as a makeshift right-back but is keen to be a regular starter in his preferred central defensive role, something Everton are unable to guarantee at this stage, and would be open to a move that provides this. The expectation from sources briefed on the situation, speaking anonymously to protect relationships, is that the Merseyside club will now be open to offers for his services."

I said on another thread that this is disgraceful, he and Branthwaite are (should be now) the pairing we should have going forward. Both Tarkowski and Keane are past their sell by date.
Instead we are contemplating selling two of our better players with nothing as yet coming the other way. Less than a week to go Angus?

This is awful news. It only took Tarks 3 minutes on Saturday to make his first blunder of the season, and if we want to be more expansive then you can expect many more.

Tarks has been good signing for us, but he's a bottom half of the league CB. Jake and Jarrod should be our future.

I sincerely hope it all gets sorted and he stays.

Boot Moyes out the door before this story goes any further. What ridiculous mismanagement of one of our best assets.

O’Brien should quite clearly be playing ahead of Tarkowski who almost gifted Palace the lead in the first couple of minutes and has been down on form for a long time. O’Brien is younger, taller, stronger, so much faster and an all round better player than Tarky.

Can’t even contemplate this one particularly with the fragility of Branthwaite.

I’d be sick if he left.

Selling O'Brien but offering Keane a new contract encapsulates all of the frustrations of being an Evertonian.

What is the point in supporting a club like ours, anymore? Newcastle, Crystal Palace and Aston Villa in recent seasons have achieved what we have spent 30 years aiming for and dreaming of and now they are in the doldrums because of the need to balance the books and let their best players go. Ollie Watkins wins a European trophy and wants to go to Saudi Arabia? The game has gone. The ladder has been pulled up. Look where Leicester City are now. Meanwhile, the Sky 6 chase and get every target they want. I listened to Carragher and Neville last night and their stick is now beyond nauseating. Remember Neville's reaction when he said those 6 clubs should have been kicked out of the Premier League for trying to engineer a breakaway? Yet again, those teams comprise his predicted top 6. Teams like us, Leeds, Newcastle, Villa, Fulham, Forest, Sunderland are just there to make up the numbers.

We could sign a 30 goal a season striker, a right back, a centre back and finish 6th or 7th and end up like Aston Villa or Newcastle.

A new stadium was supposed to offer us hope and a new era but we won't be allowed to get back to the where we want to be and that's without considering the money we owe Burnley. It is so dispiriting. O'Brien wanting to leave just sums it up for me.

Much ado about nothing.

He’s perfectly fine and won’t be going anywhere.

It's entirely possible that:

O'Brien's upset at being ignored by Dyche has been revisited and compounded by Moyes sidelining him and making Tarky captain.

O'Brien has been made some good, better offers.

That Moyes doesn't rate him as a CB. I know a few shrewdies with a similar view.

That we have cheaper, better alternatives lined up.

When the dominoes start dropping in the next few days, things will get very, very interesting!

It would be sad news if O'Brien were to leave. He was bought to be a corner stone of our defence, and when played in his correct position he has looked to be very good. I am not sure now why he is not one of the first names on the team sheet, with Tarky and Keane as our back ups. By all accounts Coleman was a fine none playing captain.

However, if a change is to be considered why not bring in a true left sided centre back, and allow Branthwaite to play on his natural right hand side. This just might ease some of his injury problems, as twisting and turning would be easier and potentially less stressful.

If this is true, we can kiss this season goodbye as we will finish no higher than 13th and probably in the relegation positions. I hope it's not true but it has the smell of Moyes and his stubborness.

David #11

Not sure what you’re getting at here. Branthwaite is a left footed CB.

Don’t see what all the hysteria is about. He’s not top drawer, there are other central defenders out there, if he wants to go and get regular minutes, fine. It’s just another transfer. The future of Everton Football Club doesn’t depend on Jake O’Brien.

Paul, 10, it may be that Moyes doesn't rate O'Brien as a centre back. But isn't it part of his job to develop/improve him?

Given that the club/owners have a strategy of buying young players and developing them, I do increasingly wonder if Moyes is the right man to be Everton manager.

We have moved away from the days when a manager pretty much decided himself which players to buy and sell.

When you have a director of football, or a transfer committee, surely it is best to have a manager (no matter how good he may be in various ways) whose thinking closely aligns with the DoF, or transfer committee.

Otherwise, you end up with disagreements, missed opportunities in the transfer market, various fall-outs and inefficient use of money.

I'm still expecting Ndiaye to get sold, so we could be looking at raising upto £150m over the next few days, and spending, what, £200m?
interesting times.

Branthwaite and O’Brien should have been the first choice CH partnership last season, let alone this season.

O’Brien is tall, strong and aggressive and the right age to improve further….to sell him would be plain stupid.

Phil 14, apparently Branthwaite is naturally right footed, although he can clearly use his left foot. I cannot remember who but someone on these pages corrected me sometime ago. Since then I have watched him carefully in games and I do think he looks stronger on his right hand side.

"An aging and mistake prone Tarks, an aging and mistake prone Keane and an excellent but injury prone Jarrad preferred in front of him. He's done nothing wrong yet Tarks and Keane, who were woeful for chunks of last season, last season as a partnership, kept getting picked ahead of him in his preferred position."

The question does come to mind, "Just how shit a CB is this kid, if he can't pass them in the pecking order?"

"Don’t see what all the hysteria is about. He’s not top drawer, there are other central defenders out there, if he wants to go and get regular minutes, fine."

Yes, his main "ability" as a CB is that his name isn't Keane or Tarkowski. We need better CBs than them. I'm for that. But it doesn't mean O'Brien is better.

He's a 25-year old on his 6th team. If he was better than Keane or Tarkowski, at CB, he'd be picked ahead of them.

Hi Folks,

I personally cannot see this being true - though Rohl being rolled out at right back (yes, I know what I just did there) does suggest that a change of heart - either from the player or the manager about playing at right back - that it is not beyond comprehension.

From what I have read and heard - in 7 of the last games that O'Brien has played centre back - there have been 5 wins and 2 draws - that speaks for itself really - and I would have him partnering Branthwaite every day of the week as I think both are at that point that they do not need mentoring from an older player.

Just my humble opinion of course!

If there is legs in this story - well I find it utterly self-defeating unless they have a better option as a replacement - or an equal one at a lesser price and thus, gain a tidy profit from the sale.

It is probably all paper talk - no stories - nothing to sell.

I'd still play Patterson and right back as the side - regardless of what you think of him as a player, looks a lot more balanced with him in it - rather than a shoehorned alternative.

Just an aside - I am a toffeeweb regular - but becoming less so - it is nice to read the comments and not get bombarded with people having a go at each other personally over football - it feels like a kindergarten convention on the site these days!

Keep up the good work Lyndon.

This lad splits opinion more than I’d expect because I think he is easily good enough to replace both Keane and Tarkowski, and the reason he’s not yet got a look in is because the manager would prefer to play him as right-back and keep Tarkowski playing with Jarrad.

Anyone who say’s he’s easily replaced, please name your chosen targets.

Although I maintain this seems unlikely (as per today's link with AC Milan's Rafael Leao), I'll join in with a few thoughts.

All summer long we've been linked with Harwood-Bellis of Saints. It seems likely he'll move rather than stay in the Championship for another season. In the circumstances he'd probably cost less than any fee for O'Brien - and may well be a better player.

It is not too far fetched to say that, as a pairing (esp alongside Pickford) Branthwaite and Harwood-Bellis could both be in contention for England's Euros squad in a couple of years. Who knows, with Norton-Cuffy at RB too...

Maybe that deal is close to done and O'Brien is pissed off that it leaves him as third choice (if that) and / or as a stand-in RB again (deputy to whoever we buy in the next week or two).

If that's how it plays out (or something along those lines) then it's probably no big deal. O'Brien always looked decent but he's not in the same class as Branthwaite by any stretch. If he goes, he goes and we move on, presumably with better reinforcements.

ps. Si # 23, they're not my targets as such - but the club has been strongly linked to CBs all summer. Especially:

Diao (Midtyland)
Cramma (Millwall)
Fernandez (Rangers)
Boyomo (Osasuna)
Nyokassi (OH Leuven)
H.bellis (Saints)
Van den Berg (Cologne)

A couple of others have been very heavily linked to other Premier League clubs:

Nwaiwu (Trabzonspor)
Matsima (Augsburg)

Whether these are better players than O'Brien is hard to say. I am not sure I've seen enough of him at CB to decide just how good he is (or isn't). But there's certainly some very good players amongst the names above.

Si - if we could get Leopold Querfeld from Union Berlin for £20-£25 million, and offload O’Brien for £30, I’d take that. Nice bit of business that, Querfeld is an upgrade.

However, it may well be that we’re wasting our time here - El Bobble is saying JOB is happy to stay with us. Paddy Boyland could also be right in that Everton will listen to offers, but they’d have to be silly ones for us to pull the trigger. I really can’t see him going in the next week.

From the little we have seen of Jake at CB for Everton and Ireland he has been no worse than Keane or Tarks who are undoubtedly in the last years of their Premier league stay.

Jake is not only a huge physical presence he is useful in the increasing need to defend and attack at set pieces.

The results when partnering Jarrad speak for themselves and with an extended run alongside Jarrad will only see him get better.

I respect Roberts views and knowledge of players but better the devil you know still ranks first with me.

I’ve posted on a number of threads since the end of last season that upgrading our back 4 has got to be a priority.

Failure to do so is going to leave us in deep trouble.
Selling O’Brien is not going to improve the situation it will worsen it.
I am not convinced of his ability as a centre back but we certainly need him as cover.

Harewood-Bellis,Norton-Cuffy would in my opinion be an improvement,achievable but will it happen?I doubt it!

Aznou is the enigma,will his attacking flair outweigh his defensive immaturity?The jury’s out on this one but I’d bet playing him would cost us more goals than he saves.

Either way it’s a dilemma that needs solving.

If the club fails to improve the back four then we will lose games we should have at least drawn,so forget cup runs and a top half finish

As always with Everton in the transfer window the clock is ticking.Tick.tock,tick tock.!

I suspect a lot of the outrage from a fair number of evertonians has to do with the lack of transfer activity as the window deadline approaches.

Still no right back on the horizon and no sign of a centre forward points to little money to spend or what we have will be used at the last minute.

I would rather we kept O’Brien and played him instead of Tarkowski but Moyes likes his favourites so if he stays he may have to wait on the bench for a while.

I bristled at the possible sale of O'Brien not because I think he is an outstanding player, which he isn't, but because in the overall squad there are probably at least half a dozen who are worse than him but have no prospect of pastures new. Upgrades required all over the park ahead of selling him. Has he got an inflated opinion of himself? Probably not in fairness, he represents his country currently which is more than any of his fellow defenders, he has been tasked with playing as a full back, a role he struggles with and he knows it's a position he struggles at and it makes him look bad. Imagine if we put Tarkowski there, that would look even worse!
He has a right to feel frustrated as he can't be enjoying his football giving sub par performances in a position he is not suited for. But if he does go it will be a direct result of the club but more importantly of Moyes in hammering a square peg into a round hole and blaming him for not excelling there.
If O'Brien is 3rd or 4th choice for his position and sees the club attempting to sign another then I would feel exactly the same way, time to go. I don't blame him, but it also points the finger at a club, a manager who is obviously not singing from the same hymn sheet as his CEO and a set of owners who are and never had set foot in the church!
Sitting far back allows you to see a bigger perspective but also exposes the flaws masquerading as truth in the CEOs words. It's looking increasingly likely that the transfer window will meekly shut without landing the players we need, the players we hoped for or even something special or out of the blue. More likely it could end with losing a couple of better ones without replacement. I guess that's my fear, or even it's my expectation.

Robert (25), that is quite a list but none have played a load of EPL games already have they? I know some will make the transition but there are plenty who don’t no matter how good they looked in their original leagues.

Strongly linked? Well I know Harwood-Bellis was a name bandied about early doors but I obviously don’t read the ITKs if the rest have been strongly linked.

I think it would be incredibly harsh to write-off O’Brien based on what must be something like 90 percent of his games out of position or partnering one of the veterans.

@Christine (30) - fully agree with your comments here. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if others share O'Brien's frustration because of Moyes' decisions to play his preferred square pegs in round holes... I feel sorry for those players to be honest as much as I do for us fans

For the sake of keep playing a declining Tarkowski (who is closely at the edge of the cliff and could fall off any time, as with any players approaching mid-30s) and sell a younger player who could still improve (let alone a few years from his prime)? The sample size is big enough that without Brathwaite on his side, all the other fleet-footed opponents across the league have begun turning Tarkowski (& Keane) into traffic cones.

Unless there is a "Godfather Offer" out there (which I highly doubt), what are Kinnear and Hammond doing otherwise as a fail-safe in the Front Office to Moyes' madness & stubbornness (especially someone who very much could leave within the next 10 months)? If this was indeed Moyes' bloody idea, they should be over-ruling him by all means.

When we thought the Moshiri-era short-sightedness is gone for good, we have this Deja Vu.

Unless proper replacements/targets are in the pipeline, this is another organisational mal-practice.

Almost exactly 2 months ago we had 71 comments on an article slagging Moyes off for not signing George because he won’t work with young players.

Hopefully this one is also nonsense.

Leeds and Palace are both interested apparently, the absurdity of this is just numbing.
The world and its dog can see the problems, the lack of a right back, the captaincy appointment, the stubborn narrow mindset, why oh why are we putting up with this nonsense.

Even I am now getting nervous about the RB situation.

It looks as though we remain very poor and are struggling to agree low cost deals.

Our lack of ambition this summer is baffling. We were reportedly interested in Delap who eventually went for £45m but we still cannot land a right back?

Less than a week to go now and yet again, we have started a season under strength.

As well as a right back, we need a left back and a striker, in my view.

Just as an aside, I work with a couple of Leeds fans. They told me this morning that O'Brien is nowhere near good enough to get into their starting XI at right back or centre back. They don't lack confidence these Leeds fans do they? Trafford is already better than Pickford, they're telling me.

It won’t be until next that summer the increased revenues for HD will be on the accounts, which explains contracts including add ons to kick the funds down to future years. It also explains the Russian roulette of leaving everything to the last minute to get cheaper deals, clubs will be wanting to get wages off their books. Expect loans with options/obligations to stretch finances. For the RB situation, I suspect they’ll have a list from Doue at the top to Castagne at the bottom with about four in between, and they’ll work their way through it until they get a bargain. With a striker, I wouldn’t be surprised at a fairly unknown name like Gouiri coming through last minute.
It’ll be harum-scarum right up until the last minute, but I’ll reserve judgement when it’s shut.

Craig # 37, for lack of ambition read lack of money. John is right about our spending constraints.

Unfortunately it looks like we cannot compete if Forest are prepared to offer the £50m (or is it €50m) asking price for Delap.

Clearly the club would like a handful of players in various different positions but our spending is so far restricted to very low cost players at the sort of prices Coventry city are paying - rather than the €40m to €60m prices the likes of Brighton, Brentford and Forest are paying.

If we really do have no money to spend then why not set expectations accordingly? Moyes said the following in June on the subject of the money owed to Burnley.

"... So the answer to that is I really hope it has no effect on what we’re going to do in the summer."

He has since said that he's trying to bring in 4 new players, was it?

Maybe Ndiaye will be sold and that's how we'll fund the "things we're going to do in (the 6 days left of) the summer".

Craig # 40, whatever happens we are likely to bring in more players. It’s just that they (like all the others we’ve bought this summer) might need to be very cheap (or loans).

I also agree with the Leeds fans that O’Brien wouldn’t start for them. They already have 4 good CBs including Muhamarevic who they have only just spent €37m on.

Palace seems possible after the sale of Lacroix but it’s where O’Brien started his career in England and failed before moving on to Lyon.

Sunderland is probably the most likely since they really do look light at CB. However they have been focussed very hard on lower cost (ie sub €30m) players from France and other continental markets for the last few years. So we’ll see.

I still think his departure is unlikely. And if it does happen smacks of desperate money raising.

Ps. Palace have literally just brought in Disasi from Chelsea on loan so that seems to sort them out so far as CBs are concerned.

We seem to be bidding too low, for the right backs that we are rumoured to be linked with.

It looks like a loan for a Thirty - something Journeyman is more likely.

First mistake Moyes made was make Tarkowski captain, 33 and getting slower, he's now our leader, and assured of his place in the team, typical Moyes. Letting O'Brien go even to bring in a fullback is senseless, which would leave another slow 33 year old in Keane, as our only backup centreback, Moyes is throwing the toys out of the pram, because Jake probably told him, after playing the full season at fullback, he has enough.

He must have replacements lined up surely?
He can't go into the new season with the current defenders minus OBrien

Christy, Tarkowski is taking over from Coleman as club captain, and I didn’t notice Séamus dishing out orders on the pitch much, last season or the previous one. And nobody has let O’Brien go anywhere. Save your pitchfork until something actually happens.

A look through the latest possible comings and goings in the Premiership is sobering, the record prices paid for mediocre players and the total, and I do mean total, absence of anything related to Everton unless of course it's outgoings..
It's Thursday the 27th hear which is 5 days till the window closes. Now unless there is a whirlwind of signings that miraculously are conjured up on an almost daily basis, we are not going to get what's needed as opposed to what we would like.

Needed is a quality right back
Needed is a known striker
Needed is centre back should O'Brien go.

It certainly feels that the main stumbling block is money, not bidding enough and secondly we are not attractive enough to attract a name anyway.

I hope, or expect to see a Right back but I wouldn't bank on it, more than that a couple of loans but nothing to get excited about.
Then the real questions will be asked of Angus..

Moyes is clearly frustrated, exactly why is not 100% clear but you don't have to be a genius to see the level of dissatisfaction in his uttering publicly. So the question is where's the money ot where was the stumbling block because strategically with just 5 days to go the window looks like a disaster.

Having written the above I now await Murphys law to be proven catastrophically wrong..at least I hope so!
Tucked uo in bed, thinking about the game in a couple of hours and wondering who is calling all the shots in this saga.. coyb!

Christine - you are right the stumbling block is money.

We absolutely are attractive enough for almost all of our targets. That's not the issue.

Mamadou Sangare was the best midfielder in France last season (outside of PSG and Bouaddi who's just gone to City for £85m) with a Lens team that qualified for the Champions League. Brentford got him because they paid €48.00m not because he "believes in the Brentford project" (or some such nonsense) or considers Keith Andrews to be a top manager.

If we had plenty of money we would have the striker, centre back and right back you correctly identify as priority signings.

We can still bring players in of course - and possibly very good ones too (like the multiple low cost deals we've already pulled off).

With Delap now heading to Forest - I wonder whether our attention will turn to Evan Ferguson. Roma didn't retain him (and bought Castro) and Brighton have brought in Promise David from sister club Union Gilloise to replace Welbeck (and supplement Kostoulas and Tzimas). To be honest, I always thought Ferguson was a better footballer than Delap - with the obvious problem being injuries. However, he's still young...

Talks of a swap deal for N'Diaye and Grealish. That would be a disaster in terms of a coherent transfer policy.

You would assume that like Chelsea. City have a pool of players that would better suit our needs. I would take a George and/or a Hackney type swap over Grealish any day. Defenders would be perfect if O'brien really want to go.

There are enough potential goals in our midfield and strikers for now. I do think we will score alot more goals than previous seadons, even with N'Diaye gone. My priority between now and the end of the window is getting the defence back on track.

Going to be a nerve racking end to the window. Frustratingly you can start to see a really good team emerging but obviously some problem positions still and a lack of injury cover / depth could really hold things back.

Hopefully a couple more players arrive now (at least) and in the right positions too…

Robert, totally agree that there is a decent team starting to emerge. I wonder was midfield a priority. There are now a decent selection of midfield options. Will the rest of the window focus on a couple of defenders?

Still very unclear how the latter days of the window are going to shape up.

Even super-rich City now have only one striker after the loan of Marmoush to Spurs. And Villa seem likely to lose both Martinez and Watkins in the next day or two (replaced already with Suzuki and Jackson).

Looks like there could still be a lot of business done this Bank Holiday weekend.